PKer Brad Dahlia, Philosophe Knights

Well, to be fair, I'm arguing a little one-sidedly here.

For instance I'm presenting Maslow's hierarchy of needs as universally accepted, which it is not. Mind you one of the criticisms of it is that it is essentially an individualistic viewpoint rather than a collectivist one and I think there is probably a fairly interesting individualism vs. society tension at the core of the Philosophe Knights argument which we've not got into yet (I've been kind of looking forward to that). I've also not looked at all into the literature on the efficacy of corporal punishment in schools which seems to follow from the same basic premise that pain assists learning and, while it is currently out of favour as an educational method, I assume it still has its supporters.

I'm also arguing in the style used by modern western science rather than in the style of the ancient philosophers which the knights seem to prefer. Essentially I am more interested in evidence and raw ideas than I am in the formulation of bon mots or the deployment of the bon mots of others. I have relatively little interest in debate pursued by the swapping of quotations from literary and philosophical figures of old. I suspect I am influenced in that by a tutor who always demanded I explain any quotation I put in an essay since he had a suspicion that I resorted to quotation when I didn't actually properly understand the content of an argument. He was often correct in that. If I were being catty I would say I am more interested in the substance than the style. If I were being really catty I would call the Philosophe Knights pseudo-intellectual snobs. However I suspect this is more to do with the science vs. humanities divide and I'm bringing my prejudices as a practicing scientist to bear in an argument with a group whose background is strongly rooted in the humanities (although that takes me back to my argument about the systemic bias inherent in their recruitment process).

I'm also being a little unfair in characterising their approach as "You are doing zombies wrong" since the constraints of the game limit their ability to genuinely pursue a program of education by violence, although even taking that into account their policy seems to be one of assuming ignorance by default which I think you can argue against even taking into account the constraints of the game (I find it ironic, to be honest, that someone suffering from dysgraphia should be pursuing a program which shares the same basic philosophy as that held by Victorian schoolmasters who caned their students for mis-spelling and also shares their attitude that, by default, it is wilfullness that causes such errors and punishment should be meted out without any further consideration of or investigation into causes or reasons). I think there is also an interesting discussion to be had on the comparative utility of spending AP in killing "useless" survivors in order to provide an example and actually using that AP in something of direct benefit such as barricading. I sort of meant to have that argument with the Spartans as well, but I had too much on my plate at the time to start it.

And lastly, I vastly prefer an antagonist with an interesting background and rationale that I can sink my teeth into in this kind of way than most of the PKers we encounter. "Pure evil because..." is terrifically uninteresting. I'm treating this as a roleplaying opportunity and I hope that everyone understands that OOC I recognise the Philosophe Knights and the Hunting Club have adopted an extreme position for RP purposes and that I do not assume that the people behind these characters actually espouse these beliefs. I also recognise that beliefs adopted for RP purposes are harder to defend consistently in a debate than those that are genuinely and passionately held. But I really do appreciate the fact that these groups are doing something more interesting with their PK rationale than, for instance, the Dead and I wouldn't want this discussion to be viewed as opposition to groups like this existing in game (quite the opposite in fact). It's a little unfortunate that I'm mostly drawing on my OOC expertise in this discussion but I think you'd have to agree that the Purple Cat character herself has neither the educational background nor experience to marshal a debate of this kind.